How do you feel about the performer injecting politics at shows?

It is election year so we are getting more politics than usual at concerts. How do you feel about that? I didn't make this a poll because I can't think of a short description to how I feel about it. Sometimes I love it, sometimes I hate it. It often isn't even a matter of whether I agree or disagree with the point of view expressed. I'm still get riled at Billy Bragg for his histrionics at a Woody Guthrie Tribute a dozen years ago. He was ranting about the American Election and how we always say we want choice but dont' have any. As is appropriate at a Woody Guthrie tribute there was a lot of politics but his was simply demogoguery. I loved most of the political discourse at SMAF adn there was plenty of it. The exception was by an artist that I really liked musically and personally but dragged on way to long during his set. Dan Bern has been extra political lately. He has incorporated it into his music well and even when I totally disagree as I did with so much of "if I were president" I still enjoyed the show. So it is far more a matter of execution for me than how much politics if any is injected into the show.

I think it would be a shame if performers didn't use their position to spread the word about things, political or otherwise. They have a microphone and an audience, and they earned both.

To the people who complain that they should just get on with the show and leave the politics out, you should sit at home with a CD if you just want to hear the music. :)

Um, not really.

Not that it's a shame when they do present politics either, but there should be no suggestion that just because someone has an audience they should spread any word about anything. That brings things back to the assumption that art is only good if it says something political. In the end, assuming that there must be politics in art just leads to bad art (of course, saying that they must be seperate is just as bad).

In the end, I don't care about the politics so long as the preformance is good.

Not that it's a shame when they do present politics either, but there should be no suggestion that just because someone has an audience they should spread any word about anything. That brings things back to the assumption that art is only good if it says something political.

not at all. read my post more carefully. I didn't say it had to be political, or that art is only good if it says something political. especially since I think that what performers say in between songs isn't necessarily part of their art.

but I think that performers would be very very boring if they said nothing other than "here's a song." and then played it. politics isn't the only thing to talk about, though.

Right... but I wouldn't call random thoughts "spreading the word" about something.

That kinda implies soapboxing... at least, to my mind.

They have a microphone and an audience, and they earned both.

Yah, but in most cases, they didn't earn it by expousing political beliefs.

I'm all for politics at live shows but I'm like some others in that I think the tone needs to be watched carefully. As with so many other things in life, it's better when it's sharing and not preaching/lecturing. Many people, even those with opposing views, are probably open to hearing a musician talk about what they believe and what they care about. Few people want to feel like they're being talked down to or judged. I'm pretty liberal and left-leaning but I even get annoyed with how heavy-handed some performers get with the anti-bush or anti-republican rants.

Also, humor goes a long way in making sharing your views comfortable.

It's not the politics per se that bothers me... its the assumptions. They always rant as though they were an oppressed minority for their views... like no one agrees with them... but of course, they expect that everyone in their audience *will* agree. Those of us who don't then get to feel *really* uncomfortable for the rest of the show.

What I hate the most is when a musician that I like starts to say things like "Sing along if you think that..." and they say something that I completely disagree with. Maybe I don't want to declare my beliefs to eveyone around me.

I see your point, Gella. Every time I hear a performer talk about something political, I wonder who's in the audience who disagrees. And I can understand how that would alienate those people.

However, I don't think that the performers act like no one agrees with them. Otherwise, they wouldn't have the confidence to assume that people in the audience would support them. But though they are not an "oppressed minority," the issues that concern most liberal (or radical) musicians and artists are just not represented and given much thought by those in power. And perhaps they come across as feeling oppressed because the people in Washington are not concerned at all with making the country a better place for art and music. So in that sense, they are at least underrepresented in Washington.

I know this is a chunk of a question, but what *are* some of your beliefs? I know that whenever FHDC talks about politics, you express feeling different from the rest of us. I still don't know you that well, so I was just wondering what your politics were.

Well... I don't like to talk about it around here. If I start to explicitly express my views here, I'll get jumped on from all sides by people who are all operating on the same set of premises and assumptions which differ from mine, and I have no intelligent backup. I don't like going it alone against a mob.

Okay . . .I'm just curious. But I completely share your feelings about going it alone against a mob. I feel that way with my family or friends sometimes b/c some of my ideas are so radical compared to theirs. I've tried to become extra-sensitive with how I react to people's opinions because of that. These times make me nervous, scared, and incredibly angry. But I need to remember that people who support everything that's going on deserve to be humanized and listened to. Otherwise working for peace becomes null and void. If you close yourself off to people just because their ideas make you angry, it's like you've failed the first test to ending hate and violence.

But that's just me waxing poetic. ;) I digress.

people at my office do that too. it infuriates me. they'll start going off on such and such a politician and how great/what crap they are. once, even, someone stood up and said "ISNT IT GREAT THAT THIS WHOLE PLACE IS REPUBLICAN? I MEAN, NO ONE HERE ISNT A REPUBLICAN!"

o.O

but of course, they expect that everyone in their audience *will* agree. Those of us who don't then get to feel *really* uncomfortable for the rest of the show.

I can vouch for that... I consider myself centrist, but on the conservative/republican side of center. I seem to associate with quite a few folks, here in particular, as well as elsewhere around me, that disagree with my viewpoints, and when a big enough size group starts talking about it, I kinda shrink away, as I don't like being the outcast.

The same rings true when I'm watching performers on stage talking about topics I disagree with... made me feel rather uncomfortable watching the "We The People" workshop at FRFF this year, as everyone's lyrics and commentary seemed so distasteful to me.

Let it not be said, of course, that I oppose people speaking their mind, only that the feeling of being the only person in the crowd that disagrees is a mighty uncomfortable one.

-- Pauley

See, I"m trying to think of what was said/sung at that workshop that could be considered "distasteful." All I remember is the Nields doing "I ain't marchin anymore," which, though might not convince everyone to be anti-war, certainly illuminates the horrors of war, and holds peace as a better alternative. I can't see why that would be distasteful. Richard Shindell's cover of "America" didn't really seem too offensive either. Maybe disappear fear's cover of "Is there anybody here" could have offended people, though, since it sort of criticizes the military.

Allow me to correct myself, it wasn't all distasteful. But the apparent assumption by many of the performers that everyone there agreed with their viewpoints about the administration and the war made me uncomfortable, as I did not.

-- Pauley

Ah, I see. And now that I remember, I can see how Annie Wenz's 'Vote Him Gone" would make a pro-bush folkie uncomfortable.

Bullseye. You get a gold star. ;)

-- Pauley

oooh yay! can i have a cookie too?!!! :)

Sure, I'm friendly and generous. Chocolate chip? :)

-- Pauley

I like politics at a live show if it's thoughtfully incorporated into the overall performance. I mean it's one thing if the artist up there saying "George Bush sucks, vote for Kerry, now here's a song about breaking up with my boyfriend". But if the music is at least partially politically, or socially minded, bringing in a discussion about politics during the show makes sense.

but why should it have to be incorporated? surely bands whose content isn't political in nature have opinions about issues, as well.

by distinguishing incorporating from injecting, shouldn't artists then not mention anything that doesn't relate directly to their material? at last Thursday's TMBG show, John Flansburgh told a very amusing story about taking the train down to Baltimore, and how he randomly ended up sitting across from Dave Matthews. it had nothing to do with the song they played next, but it was funny.

And Moxy Fruvous have gone one plenty of non-political tangents that had very little, if anything, to do with their songs.

Why is politics somehow different?

Why is politics somehow different?

Didn't your momma teach you that politics and religion ought not to be discussed in polite company? ;-)

Didn't your momma teach you that politics and religion ought not to be discussed in polite company? ;-)

no one taught my co-workers.

That's even worse. I sometimes talk about politics at work, but we usually lower our voices so as not to be overheard unless someone is standing right outside our cubes. Even then it's more a discussion of current events than anything else, and since we're libertarians, we tend to roast both sides. :)

"Two things, if you enjoy them, you should never see being made: laws and sausages." (I remember this most, slightly modified, from a "The West Wing" quote, but I know that's not the original source.)

-- Pauley

I didn't mean to imply that artists who don't necessarily write songs about politics are not entitled to have opinions on the subject.� All I meant was that political discussions should fit into the overall tone of the show.� I'll give an example of what I mean.� A couple of years ago, I went to a Barenaked Ladies concert that was a fund-raiser for a political candidate.� Now, BNL's music, in general, isn't especially political, but I went into that concert knowing that it was going to be a political affair.� Had I just gone to a BNL show and, out of nowhere, they started talking about their support for this particular candidate, regardless of whether or not I agree with them, I might have been left scratching my head, just because I wasn't expecting it. If, all of a sudden, there is a "now i'm going to talk about politics" segment in the middle of a performance that, as an audience member, you're not expecting, it could detract from the flow of the concert.�� Politics and religion are really the big two topics that you shouldn't just bring up out of the blue.�� There's gotta be some kind of appropriate context to bring up those two things.�

I normally would lukewarm on it, but with as important as it is to eject the current piece of shit from office, every little bit helps. As Dan Bern says, he's giving a couple swings of the hammer at a wall that a whole lot of people want to come down. I've even got a few political songs that I play at my shows, ranging from subtle to less subtle.

The political ones tend to be among the most requested songs. And to be honest, if I lose a few conservative fans from doing it, I won't lose any sleep at night.

Don't worry about losing conservative fans, as Christine Lavin says, "Republicans don't go to folk concerts, too many big words."

Now if only I remembered the joke she told as a prelude to that.

Of course at the same show she said I was bastard and I keep going.

i don't mind performers talking about politics, as long as they keep it to a few sentences and don't stretch it out into a whole harangue. i go to concerts for fun, not to be lectured at.

i like my protest songs to be subtle and thoughtful. it took me months to start enjoying the latest mammals cd because their original protest songs are so ham-handed (ham-fisted? maybe both?). and those of you who attended vance's frff performance workshop might also have rolled your eyes and groaned at the woman whose song ended with, "so i'm votiiiiiiiing for jooooooohn keeeeeeeeeeer-ryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!" i think it takes a lot more talent to get your message across without being captain obvious or beating your audience over the head with it. take dave carter's "hey-ho," for example--he gets his message across, but he does it in a poetic and thought-provoking way that actually engages the listener.

and on the subject of onstage banter in general, i think some (fruvous and vance, for example) can do it well, some (me, for example) can't; and those who can't, shouldn't.

Alice Cooper put it best...

"If you're listening to a rock star in order to get your information on who to vote for, you're a bigger moron than they are. Why are we rock stars? Because we're morons. We sleep all day, we play music at night and very rarely do we sit around reading the Washington Journal."

I don't mind it if the band or performer is already overtly political, like Rage Against the Machine, or Barbara Striesand, but if the main point of the show is entertainment, then the politics can stay home. I go to shows to be entertained, not to be preached to on political issues. Again, if that's the content of a song, or the band is politically active, then that's part of the act and should be expected.

I also think there's a difference between having music that is socially or politically charged, and "preaching' in between songs. I kinda get uncomfortable when a singer says "I want John Kerry to win the election!" I want him to win too, but that's not political art--that's just endorsing a candidate. I mean, it's okay, and I don't think the singer should refrain from saying that just because some people might feel uncomfortable. We shouldn't be afraid of disagreement.

But what i like more, and what I think carries more weight, is music that deals with social and political themes. The best of these, of course, are the ones that play the nuances of the issue, that don't just hammer home one position. Also the songs that have some creativity. Fruvous's best example of this is The Gulf War Song.

There's a Barbara Kingsolver quote I love: "Good art is political, whether or not it means to be, insofar as it presents you with the opportunity to experience a point of view different from your own." The artist is grounded in her time and place; she can't write in a vacuum. Therefore, issues that concern them will be expressed in her songs, and if it's done well, will illuminate an idea or a perspective that others can learn from or gain inspiration from.

Aww, now I'm getting all nostalgic b/c this is exactly all the stuff I was talking about with Jian last year.

MSNBC is carrying a commentary about mainstream musicians and celebrities protesting against the Bush administration.

-- Pauley