When Jian Talks

Many people maligned the song "When She Talks" whenever it was mentioned at the 'Con. So, I sat down and wrote some new lyrics to the song. I didn't have the guts to perform this, but I figured you might get a laugh out of it.

"When Jian Talks"

When Jian talks
who listens?
If he says something significant
it's not often.

Words passed his lips
I don't really give a shit

when Jian talks,
when Jian talks

Whats his point? It's ugly
Murray nods off when
Jian acts "smugly"

I'll never understand
why they call him "Leader of the band"

when Jian talks
when Jian talks

The fans should not be blamed
for wanting Jian to die.
But you can't shut up the man
This sucks, and I am gonna cry.

When he's done, I won't know what he said,
How can just one man make me feel half dead
I'm getting really peeved,
from this horrid memory
When Jian talks, when he talks
who listens?

you are on crack.

but we all knew that. :)

hahahah!!! that's funny!!

::passes on the I Hate The Prez crown, which was passed on from Melissa as the Stuck in the Aughties Crown::

::Edited after reading the ensuing debate::

I was assuming you were just kidding/tongue in cheek humor.� Though I don't like 'When She Talks," Jian is actually my fave Fru-guy.� Tease because we love, all that.

Speaking of Jian, I have a question. I have noticed that many fans dislike him. Why is this? I probably did not notice what he did wrong. Is it because of "When She Talks" or something? I just want to know.

Yes, it's because of "WST."

/sarcasm

I am really hoping the above lyrics are written with tongue firmly placed in cheek, and even so... I feel they skirt the line of bad taste. Do people really want him dead? I hope not. (knowing it's Misch, however, I'm pretty sure he's not serious about the jian-icide)

The thing about Jian is... he's so very mockable. He's so very make-fun-of-able. We kid, because we love. And he's a mocker, too.

Some people disliked WST with a passion (and I am one), and some people think his political rants went on too long or too often, and some people are jealous because he didn't flirt with them enough, and some people are upset because he flirted with them too much... and some people just think the underwear in the drum set just wasn't kosher.

And I'm saying most of this tongue-firmly-placed-in-cheek.

I think people love Jian. It's just fun to make fun of him.

Oh!� Yeah!� I see now.� I thought that the people on the site actually hated him.� That had me very worried.� I was also confused; I mean, if you like a group, then you usually don't want their drummer dead.� I've never been to�a concert though, so his on-stage demeanor could be why.� He seems cool enough from listening to the albums.� Glad to know that my fears were in vain.

Whoops, I typed a long reply and then accidentally closed my window. So here goes again.

I don't know why people act like this, other than perhaps it's easier to make fun of Jian than the others, because he makes himself so accessible. He tends to tease, so we tend to tease back, I guess, but here's the deal:

I think there's a line between good-intentioned teasing and being plain mean. But I think that line is an individual thing, not absolute by any means, which is why when I see something that I'm not comfortable with on here, nineteen out of twenty times I type up a reply and then delete it.

A little while ago I wrote in a forum here that if I jumped into a debate every time I read something about Jian that irks me because I find it inappropriate or hurtful or wrong, I wouldn't ever get anything else done. That's still true, so you're getting a condensed rant here. Sorry,  Magical Bob, for co-opting your post.

I believe that everyone is allowed to write or say what they like, but I wish people thought more about the fact that they're posting these things on a public forum that the person they're talking about (not to mention newer, more impressionable fans) is able to access.

If I had fans and read something on a fan community like, "The fans should not be blamed for wanting Kath to die," even though I would understand it's a joke, it would still sting. Where does that kind of sentiment come from?

Add to that the eternal chorus of "no one likes your songs" that seems to come from everywhere around here. I mean, maybe I got the definition of "fan" wrong somewhere down the line, but... as far as I know, not liking what someone does and being their fan are mutually exclusive concepts.

In the past I've lumped the attitude of unhealthily bashing Jian or the other guys in the band (which doesn't happen often, but I guess it happens) with the attitude of those people I saw travelling to a show only to stand way in the back drinking and talking and not paying attention.

There really were people who did this, and they were often the same people who had negative things to say, (things that crossed my line, anyway). My only explanation is that they belonged to a community where this band was what was cool, so... by not caring about what was cool, or by intentionally slandering it, they were coming off as even cooler folks. It's hard to explain. Maybe some of that sentiment is still around, who knows. I'm sure we've all felt the impulse at one time or another, regardless of whether we've acted on it.

One of the reasons I've neglected to post about this stuff until now (along with not being sure I was actually going to be able to put it into words, which I'm still not sure I am) is that I was afraid it might incite even more negativity. I was afraid someone would read between the lines of my post, draw a conclusion about Jian from it and then start chiding him publicly (meaning here) about his fragility or something.

Maybe I'm really not a fan. I don't know. It's weird.

What I'm basically saying is, think before you post. And if you do tend to think before you post, and still feel like posting about how nobody likes Jian, or about how nobody likes some other user here - which as we all know can be tasteful and witty if done jokingly and well, but inappropriate and mean if done wrong - then go ahead, and I'll knee-jerk and then not respond, as usual, and maybe some others will do the same.

Hey Kath --

I think there's a line between good-intentioned teasing and being plain mean.

Fair enough. My personal reaction to this was a sort of laughed "Sheesh, that's harsh." Of course, I felt it was understood that it was hyperbole. But just saying "Chill, he's joking" is missing your point, I'm sure, so I'll continue to respond to those parts I feel I can respond to. Sound reasonable?

"The fans should not be blamed for wanting Kath to die..." Where does that kind of sentiment come from?

Honestly and not joking, I think that particular sentiment came from the simplistic meter of the line. There's not a lot of syllables to work with, and the way Paul wrote the parody the rhyming was pretty close to the original, so he's got like four syllables after "for wanting..." that has to end in an 'I' sound.

On a different level, I don't think I've ever heard anyone seriously (and this might even be the first time on a joking level) talk about offing any of the band. Except that whole thing about Murray already being dead, which was entirely different.

Add to that the eternal chorus of "no one likes your songs" that seems to come from everywhere around here.

I got the impression that the vast majority (of the vocal lot, itself a minority) really disliked WST -- for its simplicity, banality, whatever -- and some other people disliked a few of the other Thornhill tracks; myself, I happen to think "Follow the Road" is freaking brilliant, and it's too bad it was probably deemed stylistically similar to "If Only You Knew" and therefore left off the album. And aside from FtR and WST, I have no opinion of any other Jian songs. His EP didn't grab me, so I don't even remember what's on it -- and that's not to say "His songs suck!" but rather "they weren't my thing".

But perhaps I'm not exactly whom you're talking about here.

...the attitude of those people I saw travelling to a show only to stand way in the back

Hey, I told you I was taping! ;-)

I was afraid it might incite even more negativity.

Eh, I wouldn't worry too much about it. The man can defend himself, if he so chooses. But I'm sure -- if he actually reads FHDC -- that he appreciated the defense. Which isn't supposed to trivialize your post as much as it sounds like it does, sorry :-/

In any case, sorry if the tone of this post is too light. It's the best I could do while watching the series finale of Buffy for the first time.

Dude, the underwear is totally not kosher. I did a specific "undo" of the underwear when I kashered the drum kit!

Honestly and not joking, I think that particular sentiment came from the simplistic meter of the line. There's not a lot of syllables to work with, and the way Paul wrote the parody the rhyming was pretty close to the original, so he's got like four syllables after "for wanting..." that has to end in an 'I' sound.


I was actually pretty shocked and offended by that line. I realize WHY it is in there, but it just shouldn't be. If Paul couldn't find any other lyric, then he shouldn't have written it. (How about "cry" instead?)

As for the whole Jian-bashing issue, I am a little less concerned about it than Kath, but her point is well taken. We all need to be careful about crossing the line between teasing and being mean.

If you don't mean to tease and are actually speaking seriously, then you need to choose your words more carefully when criticizing. For example: I think WST is a weak song; a rare dud. Jian's other songs range from competent to brilliant, with most being close to the latter. That is a simple statement of what I think and I believe it is honest and fair. I wouldn't be upset if Jian read that. I can't say the same of some of the stuff that has been written here about him.

I realize WHY it is in there, but it just shouldn't be. If Paul couldn't find any other lyric, then he shouldn't have written it. (How about "cry" instead?)

Looking back, yeah I could have probably written a different line. But I wasn't thinking about that. The "and I am gonna cry" line was written first and I couldn't come up with anything better.

A different version (leaving out the Jian-icide, which I probably shouldn't have put in there in the first place.)

The fans should not be blamed
For wanting to break the mic
But you can't shut up the man.
This sucks,
and I am gonna cry.

I will say one thing about the song. I've heard it played more on my shiny Sirius satellite radio than any other song from Fruvous. Of course, that's 3 times compared to "I've Gotta Get A Message To You" from YWGTTM, which I've heard played once. So somebody out there likes the song.

The fans should not be blamed
for wanting Jian to die.
But you can't shut up the man
This sucks, and I am gonna cry.

howabout:

The fans should not be blamed
For wanting to make him leave
But you can't define his songs
They're there, and I would rather heave.

(and no, I don't dislike all his songs, either. his early stuff is great. it's really just WST and the EP that really irritate me)

Point taken....

But, I think... (and hope!) that everyone knows the "jian bashing" is all in jest. I mean, nobody REALLY hates the guy, AFAIK.

That said... I think perhaps sometimes people lose sight of the fact that we're talking about a real person... not just some tv character or something. :)

I know I've been guilty of saying some things (jokingly of course) that, when taken out of context, would make people go, "wow.. that's harsh."

I have heard from a very reliable source that dave wrote "WST". Do we hate him now??

I have heard from a very reliable source that Fordy's sister has 3 gender biases.

Of course we do. His dislike for the Beatles is well-documented.

No man! not the Beatles!

i heard that his sister had four. and that he had found the greasy balloons. the strawberry flavored balloons.

dislike for the Beatles... I knew there was a reason I liked him. :-)

The song sucks IMHO regardless of who wrote it. And Fordy always has looked bored playing it. Dave HAS called it a sweet song, so I can see that, but Jian is always the one to most vociferously defend it.

Aww, shoot. See, I was originally going to post "He didn't even like the Beatles (with their long, long hair)", but then I decided that making it sound more pretentious would be funnier. And I didn't even think of the obvious comeback to the straight line being funnier than either.

Once again, I've boofed the joke. Alas.

(and cypress hill stole my orchestra)

oh no! did sonic youth get into your cooler, too?

"That said... I think perhaps sometimes people lose sight of the fact that we're talking about a real person... not just some tv character or something. :)

I know I've been guilty of saying some things (jokingly of course) that, when taken out of context, would make people go, "wow.. that's harsh." "

Nate and AJ have good points.� And now I feel bad for ever making fun of Jian on this site.� It's true, there is a fine line between playful teasing and borderline meanness.� (way to go Laur. that makes sense)� And you're right, we often do forget that we're actually talking about real people. Plus, we're not that separated from the band.� I kind of think of Fruheads and Fruvous as one giant circle of friends, four of whom happen to be performers.� Now that's�probably an exagerration, but a lot of Fruheads know the Lads and have talked with them and are more than just anonymous fans. And it's almost like not�saying mean things about your friends behind their backs.� Especially when it's�the internet, and they could find it.�

Does anyone think the guys actually read FHDC?� I don't doubt it, but it also seems like they're all too busy.� Still, I'm gonna be careful from now on--Go easy on the Jian-imosity (as I've dubbed it), because the truth is, I really like him!� Maybe this is because I've only been to one concert and do not have memories of him rambling on and on.� But i think even if I had heard his long pontifications, I wouldn't mind.� Cause I do the same thing.� But I do the mocking thing for a couple reasons :

A) because he *is* so easy to make fun of, and onstage he seems to welcome it and B) this sounds really stupid but peer pressure.� I see everyone else here making fun of him or saying how annoying or greasy he is, and I fear that if I say I actually like his music and his political stuff, I'll get called a fishgirl.

But, your song, Paul, *is* funny!� I think it's only the "dying" part that I found "ack! mean!"� I don't want Jian to die, cause then they can't get back together.�

Speaking of which, someone once told me that some Fruheads blame Jian for the extended hiatus.� is this true?� Do the other guys want to reunite but not him?

Okay, sorry for that long post!!

I've heard from a reliable source that Murray likes brown shirts.

OMG, NO! Jian didn't even WANT the hiatus. He fought against it for years before it happened. He loves the energy he gets from playing, and he loves getting the interaction with the fans. He is EASILY the most outgoing of the 4 of them. I have no doubt that if the outhers wanted to tour, he'd be on the curb with his bags packed as soon as he could fit it into his schedule.

As for them reading this forum, gosh I hope not. I didn't even know that they had accounts here util this last weekend. I personally am not so keen on that. I think this ought to be a safe space for fans, where we don't have to worry about being read by the band, but whatever. Josh decided to give them accounts apparently, so that danger exists.

I doubt pretty seriously that any of them read FHDC with any frequency. Jian used to read AMMF, and he was the only one. He stopped that after a while, so I would be surprised that he'd be spending his time now following the ravings of a bunch of people following a band that doesn't even exist. ;)

well, even if they didn't have accounts, they could still read this . :)

All the forums and such are publicly viewable.

Something to keep in mind. heh

They have accounts here??� woa

"following a band that doesn't even exist. ;) "

Dude. They exist.� shhhhh.� Don't crush my hopes. ;)

it doesn't really have a Dave feel to it. the style and subject matter are very much like Jian's other songs from around that time, and the continuation onto his 6 song EP.

a song like When She Talks doesn't belong among Too Careful, Earthquakes, MPG, and Dave's solo album. but it fits rather well with Sad Girl, IWHO, Downsizing, and Jian's EP.

oh, thanks for the TV theme earworm.

KNIGHT RIDER... A SHADOWY FLIGHT INTO THE DANGEROUS WORLD OF A MAN... WHO DOES NOT EXIST.

-- Pauley

"Miichael, Devon's on the line again. He wants to know what happened to his signed copy of Looking For a Freedom"

"Aw, geez, not that again KITT. Tell him I'm not here. Tell him the ejector seat malfunctioned again."

> Josh decided to give them accounts apparently, so that danger exists.

They have accounts? Not that it suprises me, I just didn't know. I think I remember Jian being on here ages ago, but I don't really remember. I'd like to think they have something better to do with their time! Except Murray. Who is so damn cool that he can just sit there and not have to worry about anything.

hehe
yeah, I mean, sorry... but... that cracked me up too.

Anyone with a valid email address can get an account... therefore josh "decided" to give them accounts.


All I have to say is, I'm glad that josh "decided" to give ME an account back in 1999!!!

I agree with you, but whoever  no name is, they have been implying for a while now that they have some kind of inside information, so either they are full of shit, or Dave was working against type.

Frankly I'm not into all the mystery.  no name, how about you tell us who you are and exactly who your source is that WST is a Dave song? It isn't like who wrote the song is a big secret.

Well maybe I'm talking out of my ass here. Someone at Frucon (I forget who, fess up) told me that originally the guys were the only ones who had FHDC accounts where the person's profile could be hidden. Obviously that is an urban lagend, so I guess I have no reason whatever to think any of the frulads have an account. Nevermind.

Oooh, magical. I may have been the one passing on this rumour, but as far as I know I'm not the only one who believed it, nor do I remember where I first heard it. Silly. I do know that if I was a lad, I'd have an account here.

On a different level, I don't think I've ever heard anyone seriously (and this might even be the first time on a joking level) talk about offing any of the band. Except that whole thing about Murray already being dead, which was entirely different.

You're only saying that because you were responsible!!! :D

But perhaps I'm not exactly whom you're talking about here.

Yeah. I don't think you are. We all know you hate Murray.

In any case, sorry if the tone of this post is too light. It's the best I could do while watching the series finale of Buffy for the first time.

Wait, wait... WHICH season?? Because if it was that one where...

And I am totally behind you on that!!

Yes.

You're only saying that because you were responsible!!! :D

Well, I knew the guy who started it, and I knew he'd be cool with me picking on him a little bit.

We all know you hate Murray.

With a passion. It didn't even occur to me until last week that I could hate him for almost being a member of Great Big Sea, though. I guess I was slacking.

(And of course I also hate.. hmm, we've covered Jian, Mike, and Dave already... Tobey! I hate Tobey! Because... umm... he likes Thai food? I'm drawing a blank here...)

Wait, wait... WHICH season??

The series finale. The one where.. yeah. The one where Joss Whedon made it obvious that he'd love to have another attempt at a Buffy movie, and he promised to set it in Cleveland. I'd suggest Heights (or perhaps Parma High), but that's probably getting a little too obscure-local for these parts.

And now I'm watching the pilot. It's so nice of Spike (the channel, not the peroxide ad) to be running two episodes a day, in order. Seasons take like three weeks :-)

(And of course I also hate.. hmm, we've covered Jian, Mike, and Dave already... Tobey! I hate Tobey! Because... umm... he likes Thai food? I'm drawing a blank here...)

It's his hair! Duh!

(and don't forget Cal. But then... we all hate Cal.)

The series finale.

oops. sorry. my bad.

The one where.. yeah. The one where Joss Whedon made it obvious that he'd love to have another attempt at a Buffy movie, and he promised to set it in Cleveland.

Was that not excellent? (The Cleveland reference, anyway. The rest? eh.)

I'd suggest Heights (or perhaps Parma High), but that's probably getting a little too obscure-local for these parts.

But fruheads are nothing if not fond of the in-joke. Hts is good... but maybe Brecksville-Broadview hts... and, of course, the Scranton Campus of CCC totally fits the gothic theme!

And now I'm watching the pilot. It's so nice of Spike (the channel, not the peroxide ad) to be running two episodes a day, in order. Seasons take like three weeks :-)

Wow. Six years of my life... and a winter's amusement for you.

I hate television.

OK, does anyone see AJ's�screen name�as "FruBONKING"??�

If I were a lad, I'd not only have an account here... I'd keep my profile hidden.

...or is it just me? ;-)

it could have been a "borrow the other's style thing"

like how paul wrote "Why don't we do it in the road"

I dont think it is a secret at all.� That is why I said that Dave wrote it.

For your information, I am not full of shit.� Thanks for implying that though.� You have a way with words...���

No no, I didn't imply anything. I stated that you MIGHT be full of shit. Or you might not. But if you want us to take you seriously, tell us who you are, and and what kind of line on information you have. You have made a couple of claims to "know" things for certain from a reliable source. Quit beating around the bush. If you have something to contribute then contribute it. The "mysterious" thing got old back in '98.

my brain is warped, and when you said "paul", I thought you meant mischler, and I got all kinds of confused for a few moments there.

too much morning.� no much coffee.

No, I would have wrote "let's do it in my bed".

A road just wouldn't be comfortable. plus, there's too much a chance to get run over.

"6 rabbits, 2 dogs, 1 cat, 1 Paul"?

Hmmmm, underwear....hmmm, behind. am I missing something here?

Maybe the old ghost has another name?

(When's the last time you were drunk out of your skull, Paul?)

I've never been drunk out of my skull. nor in it for that matter.

Yeah. Like, 10 years of touring. ;)

Jian used to keep various clothing in his bass drum, for various reasons... some of them even musical.

Included in these various bits of clothing were some panties.

Many questions have been asked about the panties. I don't think any of them were ever answered.

And I don't think they helped the acoustics at all.

You missed the bad joke, but thank you for the explaination, I had no idea his drum doubled as a laundry hamper.

i got the bad joke, if that makes you feel any better.

and i <3 jian.� yet i make all kinds of fun of him.�

hee.� i didn't see it that way, but i like it that way.����

> It's his hair!� Duh!

No.� It's his Pez dispensers.� He has more than I do.

oooh. :-P

-- Pauley

lol! I remember the jumping undies! I just wonder whose they were...

dang! and I always thought they were yours!!!

(I'm KIDDING, I'm KIDDING! I kid, because I miss you, melinda joy)

Has it occured to you that Jian might be a cross dresser? They might well be HIS! ;)

BWAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

*dies*

"So somebody out there likes the song."

To which song are you referring there?� WST kinda bugs me, but I rather like "Message."

-- Pauley

eewww. I'll never forget getting hit in the head with a huge black bra at one of the Buffalo Nov 1998 shows at the Tralf. The bra wound up on stage.

Then after that, I saw that same bra in the drum kit some shows later. :p