Fruhead Infighting

So have you noticed that intermittently things are going along peacefully here then something erupts on a forum or on the wall. It often starts over something really minor but it then unleashes pent up resentments. People act nasty for a bit then we go back to peace and amity. This used to really bother me. It doesn't so much any more. I'm not sure if that is a good thing.

Heh. Yeah I just submitted a poll on the subject yesterday.

Also, I think it's a pretty common trait among people that they don't air their resentments or grievances on a daily basis. Either they want to keep the peace or they're not confrontational people or they don't feel like they have a right to be upset over small things. But when kept in things tend to explode down the line at silly provocations. I don't think what happens here is so different than what happens to tensions in any group that tries to be civil even being in fact a bunch if individual strong personalities.

SongFight has been like that recently too. Must be something in the water.

Well whaddya expect from something with "fight" in the title?? :)

First rule of Song Fight Club...

Don't talk about Song Fight Club.

Rule two...

Use Song Fight Club soap.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say... that really makes you an insensitive clod.

;)

I can't think of any group that airs their resentments with any regularity.� That may have something to do with my anti-social tendencies, but that seems like it would be an odd collection of people.� The piss-and-moan society? I don't see it.

Civility in the face of provocation is the mark of an adult.� Sure, every little thing that happens to you will cause a reaction... everything that's said to you will cause a reaction.� The reaction itself may be beyond your control, but you get to decide if, when, and how you express it.�

Personally, I love all the infighting here.� I think part of my enjoyment is that it's still anonymous for me... I haven't met very many of you.� For me, it's just lively and healthy discussion.�

Maybe it's more a trait in groups when it comes to online. Because it happens all over the place online.

And it seems to be a trait offline at least in a lot of families/friendships/relationships...where things blow up because folks suppress resentments until it's just too much.

I dunno. I can't say I don't or haven't shared any of the views/resentments that come up in the fruhead infighting times...for me it's not worth fighting about though and for others it is. *shrug*

I don't mind arguing, I hate when things get personal. I pretty much avoid when that happens on a thread unless I notice something that really needs to be addressed.

I can see it more in online groups, since there's a lot on anonymity involved.� It's easier to vent about your day-to-day life to people who aren't really a part of it.� I'm worried about the other example though... if you're in a friendship/family/relationship that holds a grudge (or harbors any resentment), how can that interaction be healthy?� That's not to say that all interactions are healthy, but in most cases, you can decide whether or not to participate.

I used to be the perfect example of how to hold a grudge, and I had the explosive temper that goes along with it.� It took me years to realize how bad my temper really was, and years after that to get it under control.� Even though I haven't really lost my temper in five years or so, I still realize it's there.� I dunno... back in the day, my tantrums left me feeling drained, but better.� The last ones were destructive and shameful.� I'm not going to say that I'm immune to provocation, but it does take a lot more to set me off.

I think a lot of the explosiveness is misdirected.� In the "my car wouldn't start, so I was late to work, my boss called me out on it, I got bitched out by a customer, cut myself on a box.� I've just had the worst day ever, and I'm going to take it all out on my best friend because he won't go with me to drown my sorrows in a frosty A&W.� What kind of friend doesn't want to listen?� Bastid." sense, the person least responsible for your situation ends up bearing the brunt of your resentment.� Now my best friend is all defensive and I can't stand to be around them anymore ever.� WTF?� It's easy to blame the fates, but until you realize that you're responsible for how you react to situations, it's going to continue regardless.�

As always, I've gotten a little jumbled.� My point is that your temper is your responsibility.

As far as the Fruhead infighting, it's fun to watch, but a little distressing.� It's fun to watch because people who fly off the handle are funny, no matter what causes it.� It's distressing because this isn't just an on-line community.� There are real friendships at risk.� There's too much time invested in a friendship for an outsider (like me) to try butting in, regardless of my�personal feelings on the topic at hand.� When they get personal,� I genuinely hope that the misunderstandings are resolved and friendships restored.

[EDIT: punctuation]

Man.� For some reason, that made me think, "Wow.� I'd love to see Bob Dylan take on Leonard Cohen..."

When things get personal, what else can you do?� You could use your status as a mutual friend to try to smooth things over, but that might just turn the argument against you. *shrug*� There's no way to win by butting in... even if you calm the argument, you can't really soothe the resentment.� It's likely to just flare up again.

As an outsider, I could dive in... I don't have as much invested in this as some of you do.� But, again as an outsider, why would I do that?� I don't like when things get personal or specific... it's just fanning the fires.� Besides, once they get riled up to that state, they aren't likely to listen to anyone else anyway... no matter how pressing the issue.

I completely agree that your temper is your responsibility. But I still understand that people sometimes just snap.

And yeah...the situation with family/friends/relationships may not be healthy. But it happens. A lot of us hold in things that annoy us about a partner until you have a stupid fight over nothing because of all the crap that you haven't talked about. Or I hear of so many families that have huge blowouts where people don't speak for long periods of time...over nothing, but where the fight dredged up every misstep ever made.

It's just that in a lot of situations...ones where you feel you don't have the right or opportunity to speak up every time you're hurt or annoyed...these things happen. You can only walk on eggshells for so long before your feet are so raw you have to scream. OK, bad analogy, but still.

The thing is I know that you are now thinking about Dylan/Cohen slash.

Hmm.� Actually, I thought that analogy was pretty decent.� But then, my standards are pretty low.

heheh well it's a bad analogy because the purpose of "walking on eggshells" is to try not to break them so if you're successful, no hurt feets. :)

Lemme give you an example of healthy interaction:

Where I work, everything is all about communication. You are encouraged to communicate every issue, every concern, every odd feeling that may come up. Everyone is supposed to feel comfortable going to anyone else and saying "hey, can we talk about this for a sec?" It keeps things very nice and peaceful and friendly and happy because nothing gets pent up. If people are constantly communicating, there will never be a blowup. If you don't feel like you can for whatever reason... well, then bad things happen from time to time.

I suppose.� I always figured that if they were shells rather than in-tact eggs, they would already be partially broken, thus the potential to hurt the footsies.� But, you know what?� This might be the silliest conversation I've had all day, so I'll drop it.� : )� Unless you want to get in a fight over it?� We could air out our differences here in the forums?� :)

I wanna see that!

I think the reason why people get so overly upset is that it's usually not just one person giving you shit, you get ganged up on over a stupid comment or mistake you've made. I've been in that situation a few times on here where I become so overwhelmed by really hurtful posts or frum's, that it's very difficult not to snap. If you have something that bugs you send a frum, I don't see the point in involving everyone else in it. Unless, of course, you are wrong, and need someone more adept at arguing to do it for you.
Just my two bits.
*waits for flames :D*

Shut uuuuuuup!� There's a reason I didn't make that joke ;P

heh. that was funny annndrea!!!� :P

chaos writes music slash???

I agree that is how things should work.� Believe me I tried that with some people.� Sadly with an online comunity people have some kind of animinity what makes them feel that they can say what ever they want.� Weather there is truth behind it or not.� It makes people feel like they arn't hurting someone elses feelings.� Then when you disagree with them you are considered a bastard and they resent you.� If people can talk and come to some kind of understanding�then they could�act as adults, there wouldn't be this infighting.�

I used to work in a place that had a similar philosophy, but didn't 'walk the�walk.'� My example shows an unhealthy work environment.

In ours, you were encouraged to put forward ideas, but they weren't going to be implemented because of corporate hierarchy.� You were encouraged to communicate issues, which would then be prioritized and ignored.� You were encouraged to show initiative, but only within certain strict guidelines that were never adequately conveyed.� I went from having communication as my strongest suit to being a poor communicator in less than a year.� And I'll admit, I was a poor communicator UP the chain during that time.� I didn't communicate problems because I wasn't having problems.� I didn't communicate my plans because I didn't have plans (what's the point of making a plan if it's going to be changed before you get to the time clock).� I didn't communicate my objectives because my only real objective was getting through my eight hours without killing someone.

We would have opinion surveys and meetings to try to 'fix the problems' in the store.� We had one manager who spoke up about the problems he saw.� He was out of the company three months later, because his work environment had worsened enough that it wasn't worth his time and energy anymore.� Sometimes the squeaky wheel doesn't get the grease... sometimes, it just gets replaced.

Communication works in multiple directions, but only if people want to�listen and want to act.� I applaud your example.� It sounds like you've found the work Utopia that I spent years trying to realize.� Are you hiring? :-)

In a twisted way, I still think of my former employer as a great place to work.� Provided that you either stay entry level, or jump to executive level.� The middle management is a bad place to be.

who is chaos?

He's the fifth horseman of the apocolypse in Discworld . He also ran a really good dairy but somehow I don't think that is who they were referring to.

i'd say there are several aspects to the problem.

1. communication with no visualor aural cues:
when we speak to people, we absorb a crazy amount of information from them, body language, tone of voice, etc. take that away and it's really easy to mis-interpret what someone wrote. something written tongue in cheek, or with a sense of exasperation can be read as mean, outright rude, nasty... etc.

2. the faceless poster:
other people have mentioned this problem, it's easy to snark when you don't actually have look at the face of the person you are snarking at

3. self-selected sample:
this one will probably get me flamed but hey. okay we, as a group, are a little different. we're sensitive. think about all of the discussions we've had about how many of us have social interaction/anxiety issues, i hate phones, and i know many others here hate them as much or more than i do, how many of us have issues with depression, cutting, or have come from disruptive backgrounds.

there's nothing wrong with any of the above things. i'm just pointing out that, i would say, we have a larger than average proportion of people with (major) issues. myself, i've got the whole subscription.

i think we actually so better than average when it comes to drama and inside sniping. this is probably also a result of the same cause. some of us understand stuff about others of us that very few people would or do. it's a flaw that gives us a lot of strength.

4 "cliques":
well, this is difficult. you get a group this big together, you're going to have some people who get along better than other people. this group of people start hanging out because they have common interests and outlooks, other people notice and suddenly... this group is titled a "clique" i'll be honest. there are fruheads that i like better than other fruheads, whether because we have more in common, or i know them better or whatever. this doesn't make us better than any one else, we're just friends. Come on, be honest. there are fruheads that you'll pop on the wall specifically to say hi to, and some when you see, you flip to another website. it doesn't mean anything about the worth of either. that's jsut the way the world works.

i refuse to feel guilty about the close friendships i've forged here, simply because i haven't forged that relationship with every single other person on the website and i hate to think that someone else would feel guilty about the same.

erm. crap. when i started i had five things in my head... but the last one ran away before i could finish.

so yah. there's my ramble.

Some situations just cannot be done justice in the English Language.

Picture me doing Jon Stewart's "rubbing eyes with with the heels of his hands" thing and saying "Whaaaaaaa?!"

cool.

we'll have to have another pnw meet :)

The Container Store is, indeed, hiring.

One of the great things about this company is that while there are "managers" and "supervisors" and "vice presidents" etc, there is really no corporate hierarchy in the traditional sense. Sure, there are people who decide where and when certain things can be implemented, but ideas and issues and communications always get dealt with as soon as they are read, and they get read within 24 hour max of submission... delay only because the drawers in the register bay where communication forms get placed are emptied when the store closes at night. They don't get cued or prioritized, they get read and discussed immediately, and good ideas are implemented as soon as possible. Everyone in the company is, by policy, on a first name basis with everyone else in the company. District managers, vice presidents, and Kip and Garrett the co-founders and owners, frequently visit and hang out and eat lunch with us and we talk about anything and everything. The store managers offices are not theirs, but ours, and we are supposed to barge in whenever we feel like it and have a talk. The entire company just operates like a close-knit family or group of friends, except without the angst. It's really amazing. I desperately wish the rest of the world was like my workplace.

myself, i've got the whole subscription

Me, I've got microfiche.