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Poll: Which Camp Fruvous?

Lower-Camp 15 (18%)
Upper Camp 19 (23%)
Undecided 13 (15%)
What, me camp? 10 (12%)
What, me FRFF? 27 (32%)
   Discussion: Which Camp Fruvous?
Andrea Krause · 18 years ago
I love lower camp. You can choose to walk up to the noisy camp but you have the option of walking away and getting sleep when you want. :) Plus, I like how village-like and flat it is. And there's nothing better than having JillMom and Julius (^kat^'s wonderful parents) as your surrogate parents for the weekend. It just wouldn't be the same without them.

I've never camped upper but I've never really had a desire to. Too many stories of noise and being up all night. :) I'm an old fogey and need my sleep!
Adam Hartfield Back · 18 years ago
Shelly Back · 18 years ago have fambly breakfasts every morning.

what could be better than THAT???!!!


Gordondon son of Ethelred Back · 18 years ago
I camp in UCF but I join you for breakfast in LCF. That's what could be better :-)

I'd rather walk to breakfast than to the shower.
John J. Ryan Back · 18 years ago
Dude, I'd be there for breakfast!  Perhaps if you tell us a specific time, we hill-dwellers can come down and enhance the bonds between upper and lower camp.  I'll bring extra food if necessary.  We'll have a feast!
sheryls Back · 18 years ago
my one and only FRFF experience (98) i had a cup of coffee and a cigarette for breakfast every morning :D
John J. Ryan · 18 years ago
Yeah, it's noisy.  Yeah, you've got to walk up that hill.  But the view you get from up there is astounding, the sound you get from up there is almost as good as if you were in front of the mainstage, and by the time you're ready to turn in for the night, you are so tired that a jackhammer couldn't keep you from zonking out.
Andrea Krause Back · 18 years ago
But see, I'm ready to turn in for the night long before I'm THAT tired. See Old Fogey comment above. :)
zil · 18 years ago

I dunno if I'm going to be able to get there...

I'm desprate though, I'm pretty much at the point where I'll do anything to go... so what camp I'm bunking down in isn't really a concern. If it was put to me that the only place left was a three foot squar spot of mud right next to the porter pottys I'd still take it and be glad for it.

nate... · 18 years ago

Flat ground... closer to food/music..... more space... and the showers are right next-door.

Also, it does seem to be a more "tame" scene.... but *shrugs*.

If I want to, I can walk up to the 'dome.... and then, at the end of the night, when you're tired, you're walking downhill. :)


hkath Back · 18 years ago
It sounds to me like the really hardkore upper people simply never come down the hill at all. I couldn't live like that.
Songbill Back · 18 years ago
By choosing upper camp, you certainly are declaring yourself to be a "die-hard" of the Fruhead contingent, which may not allow one as much of the ability to be a cosmopolitan Falcon Ridger.
John J. Ryan Back · 18 years ago

I wouldn't exactly say you'd be calling yourself a "die-hard" of the Fruhead contingent.  Last I checked, we were singing more EFO songs on the hill than Fruvous. :)

And, especially with the absense of Fruvous, we've all become cosmopolitan Falcon Ridgers.  One does not need to not be a Fruhead to be a Falcon Ridger.

Songbill Back · 18 years ago
Well yes, I didn't mean to be so absolute... But it still feels like you are going to the Budgie Dome at Falcon Ridge as opposed to just going to Falcon Ridge. For me at least, it felt that way.
A.J. Back · 18 years ago
Ah, but upper camp and budgie dome are not synonymous. I've only camped lower once. Upper twice. I've never been to the budgie dome. When I am at Falconridge I don't want to be thought of as a Fruhead with a captial F. My friends I do want to see, but for me FRFF isn't the same thing as Frucon.

The first year of camp fruvous or "Fruville on the hill" as it was known in those days, I avoided all fruheads as I thought they were totally insane freaks. In subsequent years the "official" fruvous camp was more or less taken over by people that the old skool fruheads thought were insane freaks. Neither I nor they were really ever justified in feeling that way, but that that is the way things went. Since I was hanging out with them at the time, I didn't end up over at the Budgie Dome.

This year we'll probably go lower, because that is what Lisa wants to do.
danced with Lazlo Back · 18 years ago
not true. We stay on the hill at night and roam the festival grounds during the day. We spend a good amount of time getting sunburned at the stages and eating yummy falconfood!
John J. Ryan Back · 18 years ago
I agree with you Gella.  We both have taken in a lot of different things at FRFF not Fruvous-related, and become fans of it.  The WHOLE festival is the true main attraction, and I don't think I would be so psyched about it like I am if there weren't so many great acts playing every year.
goovie is married! · 18 years ago
if dvn come this year, neal and gordon and i are going to get ourselves together and make a flag for camp uncle buford. :) i like camping up the hill because i like being right in the middle of all the fun and the singing and the late-night concerts. and now that i know about the shuttle bus, the hike isn't that bad, either. :)
nate... Back · 18 years ago

lazy bum.



goovie is married! Back · 18 years ago
yup. :)
soul groove feline · 18 years ago
I camp upper, mostly because I wouldn't want to be an entire hill's distance away from the jamming and the dome...and I'm usually either voluntairly listening to or making the noise that occurs into all hours of the night. The way I figure it is...I have 360 days of the year to get enough sleep, a couple days without a lot of it isn't gonna hurt me too greatly. And...they had a Canadian flag raising ceremony! And they had the budgiedome sign! and...I woke up to the sound of arrogant worms being sung by my friends in the dome, and that has got to be the best. way to wake up. ever.
Andrea Krause Back · 18 years ago
See, that's how I know I'm old. Once upon a time I'd gladly get barely any sleep for days just to have fun and hang out with friends. Now, I'm so crotchety that if I DON'T get proper sleep I'm not worth hanging out with anyway. :)
John J. Ryan Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
And the flag raising ceremony will again be a part of the morning activities.  Must learn the words to O Canada.
Agent Scully Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

I thought everyone knew those. Don't they sing O canada at all hockey games downstate, in Jersey etc.?

That anthem is performed at all our hockey games no matter if the Sabres are playing and american or Canadian team. I think I learned the words to that when I was 4 at some of my first games. :)
nitsita Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

...and then there's crazy people like me who learned it in two languages....

hkath Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

You mean that crazy mixed-up version they sing at baseball games?

"O Canada, our home and native land... true patriot love, in all our sons command... Car ton bras sait porter l'épée... il sait porter la croix..."

And all the visiting ball players suddenly turn and look around, wondering if they're having a stroke and that's why it's all gibberish.

John J. Ryan Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
I've never been to an NHL game.  I know that is grounds for banishment from FHDC. :)
Josh Woodward Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
nhl, that's hockey, right?
Shelly · 18 years ago

lower is my choice.  werd.  ~throws down dope pose~

Jason Reiser · 18 years ago
Is all you bargained for!
goovie is married! Back · 18 years ago
we go to the inn at green river after the festival every year. it's the perfect way to recharge and turn back into humans again after 4 sleepless, grungified days. and the innkeeper makes kickass breakfasts.
jaye Back · 18 years ago
ah, see, i was never human to start with.

especially after the 6 hour flight home ;)
Mamalissa! · 18 years ago

I've been to FRFF thrice.  I've camped:

Up the hill, but not with Fruheads

In Lower Camp Fruvous

In Upper Camp Fruvous

The first time was my first Fruvous show, and thus had no contact with either camp.  Since my friends were volunteering and got there early, we had one of the tents right on the edge.  It was amazing.

I loved the festival that I camped in Lower Camp Fruvous, but I felt like I was missing the "wakeup to the vista" specialness.  That was pretty much the influence on my choice to go back up the hill last year. 

I plan to camp in Upper Camp Fruvous again this year.  And I'll miss Jillmom and the Estrotent and the short commute again.  Maybe if I get to work on this cloning experiment, I can be in 2 places at once, and won't have to miss anything!


Shelly Back · 18 years ago
o/' clooooone   cloone  clone   o/'
Pentecost Andrew! · 18 years ago
What about: "I have no idea what in the world you're talking about, you insensitive clod?"
A.J. · 18 years ago
One word: Children. I personally much prefer upper camp, but with the kids it is a lot less convenient.
Annika · 18 years ago

I'm open to suggestions.

J. Andrew World · 18 years ago
I stay camp andy!  It kinda breaks up being ouside the whole weekend quite nicly!  Plus I can reload and drop stuff off easier!  It also seems to be where all the women go....In the past 3 years there have been 9 different women who have stayed over the years!
Annika Back · 18 years ago
I think you need to change your name to "Andy Fru-pimp"
It's a girl! Back · 18 years ago

 Camp Andy Represent! Word!  At the end of the day, I need plumbing and a bed. And a break from all the excitement.

Semi related: at school the other day, one of the restrooms had a stopped up toilet. My actual reaction upon entering said bathroom? "Whoa-- it smells like Falcon Ridge in here!"

Brian Dinsky · 18 years ago
Hmm, although my presence was incredibly scarce at the budgie dome this past frff, the upper camp fruvous rocks for reasons unexplainable.  wow, i didn't really plan this post out too well.  umm....go  woo!  just a few months left, alright!  see you all then.
Kevin - King of WiFi · 18 years ago

So... i've never done the whole falcon ridge thing but i plan on attending this year... I'm leaning towards upper camp, but i really have no idea. im young and impressionable feel free to taint my opinion.

goovie is married! Back · 18 years ago
upper. and bring your guitar. word.
John J. Ryan Back · 18 years ago
Double word on the guitar.
nate... Back · 18 years ago

Yeah, if you're interested in the whole jamming thing, upper may be for you....

If you want to sleep, or you don't like hearing people attempt to sing, I'd probably go with lower.


Either way, though, you'll have a great time..... lots of cool people, some good music, and good food. w00t!


Let me say.. in order to avoid offending, that I don't OBJECT to the jam thing.. people dig it.. and that's very cool..... just... it's not my bag, nor is it the bag of some others.  So I'd just like to see the dome be open to that AND to afterhours (or duringhours) shows by musicians. 

We could even organize it!


Songbill Back · 18 years ago
There will be more jamming than you can ever imagine
nate... Back · 18 years ago

Heh... I'll keep that in mind when considering when to go to the 'dome.


I think there should be more performers, though... like, ya know, russell played last year.... etc.

Get some folks to come in and give little after-hours shows!

goovie is married! Back · 18 years ago
david morreale already asked me if he could come up again this year...he really loved playing for us and getting to meet other fruheads. i liked the way it worked out last year, that all the pros ended up playing on the same night. i like the idea of having a night or two for the pros, and then a night or two for just jamming. altho i know listening to fruheads attempt to sing isn't everyone's cup of tea. :)
nate... Back · 18 years ago

Umm.. hrm.

And some other artists, too.



goovie is married! Back · 18 years ago
umm...sorry? if there's, like, anti-david sentiment, he can go play in a dark corner somewhere and stacey and i can go watch him by ourselves. and then there can be an orgy. yeah. :)
Josh Woodward Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
oh cool, nate doesn't like him. i'll have to check david out! *grins*
nate... Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

/me laughs.

I don't DISLIKE him.. sheesh.


Way to put words in my mouth.


goovie is married! Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
yes, everyone should check david out. he's talented. and nice. and freakishly strong. and of course i have no objection to just about anyone else who wants to play at the dome...david's just the only one i've talked about it with recently. :)
Gordondon son of Ethelred Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
You didn't mean me of course. Everyone loves my singing :-)

I agree, I like having the pros some nights and not others. I can't sing at all but I still love the group singing.
jaye Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
by everyone, gordon means just him :)
John J. Ryan Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
I guess this is the good reason why we do have two camps: Upper and Lower.  Everyone is happy this way.  I know I will try to make more of an effort to visit downstairs this summer.
· 18 years ago
I have never been... but evey year I see the pictures..I want to go more and more! JJR and I are trying to find a way to get me up un stage interpreting the songs and witty banter into ASL! wahoooo! I really want to see my close to the music, and try on my new "interpreter" role! (from what I'm reading, I'd be in LCF if I was working) I like crazy, but I also, like Andrea, enjoy the sleeps! ~J~
J. Andrew World Back · 18 years ago

Did you look into "The New ARtist Showcase"?

Josh Woodward Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
don't they already have an ASL interpretor to stand on stage and flail their arms distractingly for the 500,000 non-deaf people, and those three hearing-impaired people who paid $100 to see a concert?

sorry, not a big fan of the idea of signing at concerts :)
Mamalissa! Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

wow...I absolutely love watching the ASL interpreters, and I never learned sign language.  Sometimes watching the signer makes me tear-up, like when Jodi (the whispy short-haired lady) signs for Dar.  And Dave McCloskey (Santa Clause) is so animated - not just when he signed Johnny Saucep'n.  And I have to say that the humor workshop would've lost an element of hilarity had there been no one to sign DVN's "Enormous Penis" or Eric Schwartz's "Houston, We Have a Problem" a.k.a. "I'm Shaving off my Muff for You."  The woman who did that (blond straight chin length hair) was *amazing*!  I look forward to the signers at concerts almost as much as the performers.

nate... Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

I agree.. they are entertaining.... espcially when the performers interact with them.

But.. that being said... it is a liiiiittle bit ... odd.... to pay to go to a concert when deaf.



Mamalissa! Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

I don't think it's odd at all - it's not just a concert.  Folk Festivals have the dancing and food and camping and fun and everything.

So why have the interpreters at the music stages then?  They're close enough to the stage that they've gotta feel vibrations - and from Eddie's Drum solo to Jeff Lang's guitar, those have got to be some good vibrations.  And you can't assume complete hearing loss for every deaf person.  There are degrees.

C'mon - haven't you seen Mr. Holland's Opus?  ;)

Josh Woodward Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

I'll agree that it works better for some artists than for others. But for some of the less "funny" artists - especially solo artists - when they're trying to create a mood or an atmosphere, it's distracting to have someone else on stage. Let alone someone who's constantly moving. I'd be a lot happier with the situation if they were positioned somewhere out of the field of vision of the people who are there to enjoy the music.

*shrugs* I know I'm insensitive or something. I never was much good with this PC stuff. :)

goovie is married! Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
i've never found them to be a distraction. if i don't want to watch them, i can tune them out and focus on the performers. but i always have to watch jody, because she just rules like that.
Sara Woodward Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

wow. umm, wow. many people go to see friends and enjoy the music in a variety of different ways. you can feel the music as well as see it without being able to hear it. why shouldn't deaf people also be given the opportunity to experience the lyrics as well?

positioning them out of the field of vision would make it pointless, since you have to be able to see the person signing to understand the lyrics. yes, the movement can be distracting, but are you really willing to deny deaf people the lyrics over that? to some people, that is the most important part of a song. I don't understand why the right to a show without a person signing onstage should trump the right of deaf people to enjoy the music as full as they can. Could you explain your logic here please?

Am I totally off base here? Thoughts? Anyone?

(Here's my bias. I have some amount of hearing loss, and this topic may eventually become extremely relevant to me. I can't imagine not continuing to go to shows.)

Gordondon son of Ethelred Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
I always thought the signing was a bit silly but not a distraction. It doesn't bother me at all. Some of the signers are great. When Jodie signs for Vance that's a whole new ballgame, it should be billed as the Vance and Jodie show.
John J. Ryan Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
And Vance is back this year. :)
Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

I'm posting the first little bit from Sara..then I'm going to speak my mind.


"wow. umm, wow. many people go to see friends and enjoy the music in a variety of different ways. you can feel the music as well as see it without being able to hear it. why shouldn't deaf people also be given the opportunity to experience the lyrics as well?

positioning them out of the field of vision would make it pointless, since you have to be able to see the person signing to understand the lyrics. yes, the movement can be distracting, but are you really willing to deny deaf people the lyrics over that? to some people, that is the most important part of a song. I don't understand why the right to a show without a person signing onstage should trump the right of deaf people to enjoy the music as full as they can. Could you explain your logic here please?"

Right on Sara.

and here's where the foot comes down.  I know many of you, and I know you have good hearts, but some of your coments, and I respect your opinions, really opened my eyes, and broke my heart.

First of all, the ASL interpreters are not there for you.  Think of yourself as Deaf for a moment.  not "hearing impared" *shudder*, but culturally Deaf.  The big "D" means that you value communication, and language, YOUR language. (American Sign Language)  It also means that you value friends, interaction, and community.  You value the group as a whole, not the individual.  You put up with the fact that generally, hearing people think you are less educated, solw, "handicaped", and need to be "helped".

Providing interpreters at ANY event, shows the Deaf clients that the organizers care about creating an environment where Deaf people are valued and welcomed.  The interpreters are not put on stage to be "distracting" to the hearing masses, or to make the performance "less than".  they are communicators.  That is all.  They move the way they do, because 80% of ASL syntax depends on  face, and body movements.  Signs themselves are nothing without matching the emotion and style of the performer or speaker. 

If you were Deaf, do you think you would be able to get the full affect of a concert from vibrations?  Would you be happy to watch an interpeter that was songwhere in the field when  the action was happening on stage? Do you know that most of the FRFF interpreters donate their time in any weather condition to provide this service?  Interpreters live in a "third world"  We were raised in an individualist society, but now we embrace the values of the Deaf community.  I really didn't intend to "scold" here, but I did want to encourage you to see things from a "Deaf" perspective, if you could.

*gets off soap box*



Josh Woodward Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
> because 80% of ASL syntax depends on face, and body movements

Ok, so move the signer to a sidestage and have a large video screen of the performer next to them. The intended audience of the signer gets what they want, while everyone else gets an uninterrupted concert. Everybody is happy.
Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

The "intended" audience?

ok, so inclusion through segregation?

must be nice to be one of the "intended"


Eri · 18 years ago
Because. What broke student/starving artist who gets paid in -Canadian Dollars- can afford a trip like that?
Arbie Back · 17 years, 11 months ago

Not that I don't want to come......

Maybe someday if we time a visit to Robin's folks in Ohio just right... *sigh* it seems to be getting harder and harder to find disposable income to throw at trips of any sort. Pick your career paths carefully my children

Agent Scully Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
Doesn't matter what career path you choose.

Most wind up changing it later on in life anyway.
Bruce Rose · 17 years, 11 months ago
Not to be anti-social, but Teri and I have this thing about cushy beds and hot showers. While I'd like to camp (and it'd be lower), room rates in the area are reasonable enough that there's no reason to give up the amenities. Sure, we've been staying about 30 miles out. That means early mornings, wonderful diner breakfasts, and a half hour in the car before we get to the festival. The only downside is the high hillside seating for the evening shows, but the camera compensates for a lot of it.

The lower camp seems to be more open and welcoming, while my visits to the Budgiedome have left me feeling like the unwanted party-crasher.

That could be because no one knows me, since I'm only here once a week and live in Indiana.
Agent Scully Back · 17 years, 11 months ago
Right here!

That's why I don't attend FRFF!
Steve Martin · 17 years, 11 months ago
IMHO Upper or lower it makes no difference where you camp since you can partake of each's benefit. Which activities do you want to be closer to? Sleeping is not a problem upstairs. Just bring some ear plugs as extra insurance. IMHO Lower camp feels more like a family campground. Mom/dad and all sorts of extended family hanging out. Upstairs is the for the kids - a sort of never-never land (you know where the kids never grew-up). I'm up for the 'camp' and the music although by Sunday 4 am I can be found 'resting my eyelids' in the air chair. So I want to roll or stumble from the air chair to my tent when I'm ready to sleep horizontally (not quite horizontal - it is on a hill). I don't sing (well) or play a musical instrument so jamming is not my thing. When the jammin and the pro's/semi-pros can all play I'm happy. I like upstairs being a 'destination'. I think that's cool. Each camp is what the person puts into or takes out of the experience.

So its upstairs for me because all my stuff is there and its where I want to end my night.
stealthlori · 17 years, 11 months ago
I'm big on the B&B thing myself. Unfortunately, that's dern expensive.

It's funny, because going into my first Falcon Ridge I found the idea of camping among all these scads of people, upper or lower camp, to be crazily intimidating. Didn't want to do it. At all. I thought it would be scary. I thought there would be a lot of drugs and freaky people. What I wanted was to see music and then go back at night to a nice cozy mattress and a flush toilet.

And now for some reason I'm tagged with co-responsibility for *that* camp. Although I try to pay a few visits to lower camp too (only made it once last year.)

Seems to me that unless you've experienced both camps, you really don't have grounds for comparison, and a lot of talk is hearsay and preconception and rumour. Upper camp is definitely not for the sleep-challenged, and is probably not for kids under 10, although Andrew (now 14) has done fine there the past 2 years. But it's not out-of-control, it's not hardkore, and I don't think it's a stretch to say hardkore out-of-control types aren't welcome. The campmakers simply don't want drug use or drinking to excess at the camp -- and if anyone gets disruptive, well hey we'll just roll 'em down the hill ;). Pretty much everyone who abides by those two restrictions IS welcome, although if no one knows who you are it probably would help to extend a hand and introduce yourself around the place.

And yes, we really do spend most of the day downstairs. Well, except for me last year on Sunday, when I was sick as a dog and it was raining. But I digress.

At upper camp you can stay up until sunrise listening to music made by assorted pros- not "just" Russell and David but Kevin So, Butch Ross, Adam Brodsky, Christina Abbott, and whoever they bring along from the new-artist showcases. Or you can put in earplugs and be asleep by 11 pm. I've done both.

Lower camp is indubitably more convenient and sane.

Upper camp doesn't have family breakfasts, because well you just don't want me and Traci working over flames before noon, but it does feature Paul's gourmet cooking on setup night, and endless pots of cocoa and coffee and tea. If you pitch with some of those supplies, you're welcome to partake. And then there's the private hot shower. Have we mentioned the private hot shower?

It's still not as good as a B&B shower, though ...

... Oh yeah. And a big YAY for Vance!

(No Paperboys tho. sniffle.)

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